These are more comments for the world-famous D.U.M.P.S. list, comprehensive list of specific short film no-nos to be ignored at your own peril! (To see the actual list, click here.)
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Comments
Re: DUMPS
Sure student films suck as do most films. So that brings me to the point, most filmmakers student or otherwise suck. If your student films lack(ie if you are a hack), and you look to filmmaking to provide you a career-STOP. There are already an overabundant wealth of untalented nothings out there. Do something else, be a lawyer!
Location: Vancouver, bc canada
Re: DUMPS
This is Alex Ranarivelo's Rule: The 4 D's of student filmmaking.
Death
Drugs
Drinking
It was all just a ... Dream.
These are the easiest things to use to get drama out of a story. They are usually done very badly. Make a short film without using one of the four D's, and there's a chance it might turn out good.
Location: Westlake Village, CA USA
Re: DUMPS
You forgot to mention the cliched close-up of an unbroken hymen that CUTs TO the little girl's teary eyes just before she gets it up the bum. Cheap, loss-of-innocence symbolism. How many more times do we have to sit through one of those scenes?
Location: USA
Re: DUMPS
How about the misunderstood artist? Please get a life. PS- I love this list. It could be retitled "You May Be a Director If..."
Location: USA
Re: DUMPS
you have critisized just about everything.
Don't be so critical and don't pretend like you hate everything
Location: USA
Re: DUMPS
Alright, I'm 16 and I could do with a bit of help because next term I'm directing my first play. It's basically Shakespeare. I have no money but my school has a wealth of resources eg. lighting.....errr, dry ice......cotton wool, ketchup etc. If anyone wants to do a poor English orphan boy a favour, or simply wants to inflate their personal ego on the basis that your a better person than me, I'd really appreciate a bit of advice or reccomendations or summint. Cheers
Location: Newcastle, England
Re: DUMPS
For some reason people pretend filmmaking is difficult or hard or whatthefuckever. Its not, get a camera, load it point it at something, turn whatever you have to turn until you can see the stuff, then turn the thing on. Light meter? fuck it. Tape measure? fuck it. You think you need to know more? Go get that book Robert Rodriguez wrote.
Location: Washington, DC USA
Re: DUMPS
I'm a 17 year-old high scholl student and I've been part of the Film Club for about a year (note: this is for those people who feel that credintials=credibility, in which case I have none.)
First, a commentary on the commontary. It reminds me of the bickering scrawl I saw on a bathroom wall once. About half is part of a "This site sucks. No it doesn't" argument. Be origional.
Oh yeah. People will take what you write more seriously if you pay closer attention to spelling, grammer, etc. I suck at this, so when I see glaring mistakes I know it's pretty bad.
I wrote a script for a kung fu spoof that we are shooting. However, I only have it loosly making fun of that film genre. A lot of it is drawn from Japanese comic books, which are drawn in a highly cinamatic style. Because part of it is taken from a lesser-known area of a foreign culture, my script has an outward appearence of semi-origionality. Also,
I did not try to put any symbolism or messege into it. It is soley for the purpose of having fun and the fact that it is filmed on a digital camera means it costs almost nothing to do. Having fun is the most important part of making a film. If you don't enoy it and your not getting paid, why the hell are you doing it?!
Location: Eugene, OR USA
Re: DUMPS
Ok, let us stop pretending. Who actually reads the comments. I started with reading about two and couldn't take it anymore. I think the only thing to add to all this is for us aspiring(did I spell that right?)filmmakers to give the audience something to chew on. Key = something unique, therefore ignore it all, including this wonderfully encouraging list
Location: Racine, WI USA
Re: DUMPS
We(the ignored indies)need somebody to come to Belfast and help us. The N.Ireland Film Commission is a closed shop and only friends of friends get anywhere(and they are crap). The real talent doesn't have an outlet.
Location: Belfast, Ireland
Re: DUMPS
HELP ME!!!! I am a media student, (and not a very good one at that) I am way more intrested in the print side of things but for half my marks I have to produce a short (15min) film aimed at a target audience (I decided on teens) But from there on I am stuck. I do not have a vreative bone in my body for things like this so if anyone has any ideas please please PLEASE e-mail me and I will be eternially greatfull!
)
Location: Derby, uk
Re: DUMPS
OK, you've dumped on most of the things film students like to do, that they think is neat! What do you expect them to do, then? Just NOT what you don't like? How about giving them some inspiration instead?
Bob
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
Re: DUMPS
You have to be born before you can crawl.
You have to learn to crawl before you can walk.
You have to learn to walk before you can run.
...
You almost never fall down once you learn to walk.
You almost never fall down when you learn to run.
...
You have to start somewhere, and that means making lots of mistakes which others DUMP on, so be it. Just ignore them! Succeed anyway.
...
Film school is the borning. Creativity is what you are made of. Go for it!
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
Re: DUMPS
Reading through the replies to this great list and I get depressed.
This list is the most enspiring thing I have read ever! It gives tips and warns of pitfalls, but it also lets me know that others see what I see in mediocraty (forgive the spelling).
It is harmfull to the careers and confedence of those who are truly creative to have their work flooded out by large amounts of bad or "barely acceptible" work, and then be grouped in with this work by individuals and the media. This happens far too much with all forms of expression. Yes it may be fun to claim you have talent when you don't, but when it numbs peoples reactions when they are realy confronted by someone of "True Genius" claiming their work IS something special pandering to these people (even if they do pay well) does cause harm.
Location: New Zealand
Re: DUMPS
This list is amusing, but rather harsh I feel. The flagship student film at one of our top universities seems to have followed this DONT's list almost by the letter, but taking it as a DO's list. Oops! Perhaps its a post-modern statement on their part?
Location: Ipswich, UK
Re: DUMPS
I would like to suggest an addition to the the list of DUMPS. Blair Witch rips.... it's gotten to the point where you can't swing a dead cat around with hitting some sort of parody or a striking similar plot line. In the last semestere, I've seen TWO out of my school alone. I shudder to think of how many more are being produced. Thanks.
Location: St. Louis, MO USA
Re: DUMPS
Interesting list. But it seems like a few of the DUMPS comments have a problem with filmmakers dealing with "inner conflict", an "introspective shot", and "personal discovery". Shouldn't new filmmakers try to deal with what is important to them? I'd rather see someone fail in this way than a bad copy of whatever is the current hot Hollywood product. I guess it just depends on the filmmaker's goals.
Location: USA
Re: DUMPS
Sir, you seem to forget, some of the greatest stories and films ever made are about the subject matters that you are condeming. I think it is important to distinguish between - ideas that are bad and bad writing. Student films exploit good ideas and employ ultra bad writing. SIMPLE IS BETTER AND SMARTER. Story and style must be equal and trust each other!
Location: L.A., CA USA
Re: DUMPS
Have you ever seen somebody throw up? If so, you probably remember it quite vividly due to the fact that it looks like shit from the bowles of hell is coming up until the persons organs are on the floor. Too many times have i seen the fake barf where someone spits out a mouthful of oatmeal. Who are we kidding here?! Watch Detroit Rock City for a good example of a "real throw-up" and with all due respect to spike, watch Summer of Sam for a really lame, cheesy fake barf. this is an easily avoidable pitfall to that impending amatuer look. Ok, enough about throwing up, I'm spent.
Location: Westwood, CA USA
Re: DUMPS
I am a begining young film maker and I have completed a script. I need help getting started on everything else. Please send advice. Also, I think you forgot one thing, along with the walk-in/walk-out transition, I know a film is bad as soon as I see a transition where they show the wall in one set and then suddenly it turns into the wall of another set. I really like this site though. Bye
Location: NJ USA
Re: DUMPS
How could you forget the dreaded TWIST at the end of nearly every student short?
Location: London, UK
Re: DUMPS
The PUNCHLINE film is the one I saw way too often at film school, both as a student and as a instuctor. It's similar to the One Joke Film, but in this case we must wait until the very end to "get" what is going on. We reach the conclusion and slap our foreheads and say somethig like, "Oh, I get it, he's blind!" Film students make their films like comedy sketches. They don't tell stories jokes. But I can't totally blame the students, for that's just what they are! They've learned this shit somewhere, either through faculty memebers who make no effort to teach their students elsewise or through watching films that use these cliches. You've done a good job of pointing out the bumps in the road, but you need to also make a list of things that make for good short films. It's very easy to excentuate the negative, but what is it worth if you don't illuminate the positive?
Location: Tampa, FL USA
Re: DUMPS
Stick to the story and your charachters. There is nothing as boring as a scene that doesn�t have to be there.
Location: Reykjavik, Iceland
Re: DUMPS
Interesting site. The author(s) of this site should provide a sample/link of their filmwork, so aspiring filmmakers have a model of an acceptable student film. Otherwise, all this valuable advice shouldn't be respected.
Location: Miami, FL USA
Re: DUMPS
This comment addresses several negative posts by other readers.
"This valuable advice shouldn't be respected"
What the hell does that mean? How can it be valuable but not respected? What does giving an example have to do with ANYTHING?
If you're making a student film, hold it in the light of the DUMPS list to make sure that you haven't fallen into using any cliches commonly found in student films.
The DUMPS list tells you what has been done to excess, so that you will know if your nifty shot is as innovative as you think it is. Do you really want to get pissed off at somebody who's giving you advice that could help make your film better before you even start shooting it?
The list isn't trying to stifle anyone's "big ideas" about what should be in their film, it's just letting you know what's been done to death already. If you've compared your movie/script/idea with the DUMPS list and found you have a couple of the problems listed, then it's time to ask yourself a question: "Is the way I'm dealing with these cliches unique and interesting enough that the audience won't notice the cliche?"
If not, come up with something NEW and DIFFERENT. If the DUMPS writers gave you some examples of what's new and different, then you'd just be copying them. You're a filmmaker, get creative!
The list isn't putting down your big ideas. If you actually read the thing it's mostly technical stuff, camera shots, visual gimmicks, and other stuff you might be tempted to rip off from the Coen brothers. Granted, some of the items aren't as specific as they could be (like the thing about Tarantino rip offs), but they're still valid. The items that address content, such as the "'Nothing Happens' short film" are much more difficult to spot in your own work because you are so close to it. To spot problems like those, you need to ask someone else to read your script and tell you if they think it's got problems. Somebody you can trust to tell you the harsh truth.
You're not perfect. Nobody is. Let the DUMPS list help you get a little closer to the ideal, or at least a little removed from the rest of the trash on the heap.
Location: Lancaster, PA USA
Re: DUMPS
I believe that by absorbing as much from the greats and the not-so-greats, you can evolve and develop a style completely your own... And just two more things: 1. No more "Summer that changed our lives" films 2. Eliminate all frat house fun student flicks. The world would be a better place without such films. Also, I'd like to see more silent film projects with music. I think every filmmaker should be fluent at telling a story with images before attempting dialogue... Just my opinion. Thanks. -Rob Neal-
Location: Columbus, OH USA
Re: DUMPS
Well this list is just great, I think at the bottom you should have added something like "All student film makers suck, so just go out and watch someone else's films" that would've been very incouraging. Also you forgot somethings like: Dont use cuts - make the whole film one long shot. Since you have 10 audio sources that suck, stick to silent films - THEY ROCK! By any means don't try to find you cast from people you know, put up adds asking proffesional actors to work for free for you - thats the key to succes. But really, dont even try, you know you're going to suck at it, just go pay 5$ and see Pitch Black, now THERE is a masterpiece.
Location: Tampa, FL USA
Re: DUMPS
Wow! I almost busted a gut reading this list. As a current film student myself, I can tell you honestly that I've been guilty of making these mistakes many, many, many times. (I like to think I've learned from them.) I've also seen these same problems in innumerable films from my classmates � if I have to sit through one more "tortured artist" film, or one more film that dwells on depression and suicide, I think I'm going to throw up. Trust me, guys, this list is spot-on � read it and take it to heart. (As for those posters who write things like "this whole site is shit and you should just ignore it and be creative and do your own thing cuz if you just put your soul into it it'll be great" � I know students like that, and you know what? Their films SUCK. And by the way, you don't have to be a genius to criticize other people's work. Shit is shit. I don't have to be William Faulkner to know that Danielle Steele is trash.) For any of you readers who may be getting discouraged from reading this list, cheer up: Many of those directors that you look up to made these very same mistakes in their student films � trust me, I've seen them, I know. About the only difference is that instead of wanking off to Tarantino or the Coen Brothers, they were wanking off to Truffaut and Godard. It's true � film school is the time to screw up, make mistakes, and make masturbatory films filled with self-indulgence. The important thing is that you get it out of your system QUICKLY and start learning from your mistakes, start learning how to stop being a STUDENT and how to start being a FILMMAKER. Two more bits of advice: 1. Have fun, for crying out loud. As one poster said, "If you don't enjoy it and you're not getting paid, why the hell are you doing it?!" The worst student films I've seen, including my own worst output, is overly-pretentious, hyperserious dogshit. Even if you're going to make a serious film, you should still have fun doing it. You are not Francis Ford Coppola. You are too young, inexperienced, and naive to be "suffering for your art." There is nothing more pathetic than a student filmmaker who acts as if every film they make is a great revelation from God on high. The best student filmmakers I know never take themselves too seriously, and they always approach their films with a sense of fun � even when they do "serious" films. 2. Like all rules, all the suggestions on this page are made to be broken, and no, that doesn't contradict my earlier statement. Breaking the rules is great when you know exactly what you're doing. My beef is with people who just break the rules for no reason. For example, 99.9999% of the time, video effects really do suck. (And believe me, I've been guilty of screwing up my own work with cheesy video effects.) But the best student film I've ever seen � and I've seen hundreds � was a film that relied heavily on video effects. The difference was that the filmmaker really knew what he was doing, and he used those effects in a beautiful, creative, and original way that was completely in line with the the story he was trying to tell. So don't throw out the script of your film just because it breaks a few of these DUMPS rules. Just take an honest look at your work and ask yourself if this is really, REALLY necessary. Be honest � you might be able to rationalize it to your professor or your classmates, but deep down inside, you know when you're doing something just for a cheap effect. That's all guys, keep up the good work and have fun!
Location: LA, CA USA
Re: DUMPS
This list is interesting, but very negative -- students are allowed to make mistakes (they are human too!). A very negative list.
Location: Loveland, CO USA
Re: DUMPS
So funny, so true...I am guilty of all of them... whoever wrote this is funny...a good writer...he/she probably did it all too. Hopefully none of my films will be judged this truthfully, actually do you critique screenplays? I need it for my new short I'm doing soon.
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Re: DUMPS
Wow... I almost spend a lot of money to make a short movie with DUMP things. Thank you for your time to write this list, even there are many negative lists, but rest of them are greats. I also believe school film is the time for us to learn and make mistake. So don't worry to make a mistake. Go a head.
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Re: DUMPS
All too often, when you find a real good student film, its only good to other filmakers. Try to please others and not yourself, thats all i have to say. I like soda.
Location: keene, NH USA
Re: DUMPS
Love the list, but you're naive if you think that ONLY students fall victim to these cliches. One of the most painful things I've ever had to sit through was a short (although it felt like it was three days long) documentary made by a guy in his 40s, about how his wife died from cancer. Well, it was more about what HE went through as she died from cancer. He decided to have an affair to cope with his wife's cancer, she found out and threw him out of the house, and she died after she kicked him out. Much of the video consisted of him talking directly to the camera, and my favorite line was "I think we failed each other." Thanks God he wasn't at the screening. Often, that's the roughest part of watching festival shorts - sitting in the same room with the folks who made them. So, yeah, many student films suck, but I think the fact is MOST short films suck.
Location: USA
Re: DUMPS
This is a cool list of don't for films, but where are the DO's??? Also, each of these are often over-used and cheesy, but if they have a purpose and aren't used too much, then they are effective. Keep in mind that all of these DON'T's are a matter of degree. Finally, I strongly believe that the key to making a short film is extensive preplanning. Write, rewrite, double check, re-storyboard..etc etc.... until the film is exactly the way you envision it. A well prepared film will shine through, and those that are just "thrown together" will stand out as such.
Location: Butler, PA USA
Re: DUMPS
Imagine a student filmmaker who is feels he is talented enough to piss with the big boys, had he made some better decisions. I am probably one out of a million but please listen for a second- I am a film student at Binghamton University. I am constantly being drilled with the whole artistic aspect of filmm, it is an art school, my mistake. Don't get me wrong, I know that filmmaking is an art form and I very much respect it as such. I know that I have to pay my dues, and I may not have any right complaining. But the program I am enrolled in does not allow me to explore narrative filmmaking, and when I try to press my concern, I am shut out. For anyone who is interested in any collaborations, I feel like I have a lot to offer. I'm sure you do too. The bottom line is, I feel like I have learned a few things that could be uniquely beneficial to any project, I have been studying film for three years; I have loved it all of my life. Mostly, I have learned what I do not want to accomplish as a filmmaker! The combo of conflicting intersts and hard work has nutured me with a sense of humor, and an interesting creative edge. My own ideas could have merit and a significant impact on a serious film, if I am given the chance. I am twenty- one years old and I don't feel like I have much time left. That is how this program at BU has made me feel. I know there is so much more for me to learn. I am 46 credits short of a bachelors degree and I am tired of waiting; and I'm broke. I don't know how much longer I can afford to go to school. I'm doing my best. If anybody is struggling like me, I'de love to here from you. Anybody that is in any position, in need of a grip, a production assistant, or anything under the sun that will help me further my quest toward making my film, I will respond immediately. Sorry, I can not leave New York, hopefully, we can keep it local. I am also willing to send a picture and full college transcript. If anybody is serious enough to respond, thanks. If I can help any others in my situation, in any way, I would be honored, let us work together. My name is Drew Wieber- b191...@binghamton.edu Sorry about the message, I know your site isn't the want ads- Thankyou, Peace -
Location: Binghamton, NY USA
Re: DUMPS
Great list, but I seem to be missing the student films with all the nakedness. Everything else is right on the money. Here are a few more: 1. Excessive foul language. What is it with you kids and the "F" word? I just get TIRED of hearing it over and over and over. 2. FOCUS THE DAMN CAMERA AND HOLD IT STILL! 3. Insane and mentally disturbed people do not constantly spout dialoge from TV shows.
Location: Milwaukee, WI USA
Re: DUMPS
Great list. I have to agree with some of the other posts. You have to rember that when starting out in film, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO WIN THE OSCAR ON YOUR FIRST TRY( my=self included). I think that if you watch your own film over and over agian ....then step back and watch it over and over agai, you become part of the work. You may see you short commings a bit faster. And screen it with your friends, and foes alike.. The more insight the better. CC
Location: North Kingston, RI USA
Re: DUMPS
One sure sign of a student film is that one person is credited with writing, directing, producing, cinematography, costumes, special effects, make-up, catering, etc. 1950's filmmaker Bert I. Gordon was a jack of all trades but looking at any of his pictures proves that by doing everything, he did none of it well. Let other people help you, if possible and be sure to give them credit for their work.
Location: USA
Re: DUMPS
I think its a great funny list. being a student myself i have learnt from my mistakes. As you have all said, student films are where you learn whats cheesy and whats good. My first film was the biggest pile of cheesy shit but the next film i made was such an improvement. Dont get me wrong, that was still pretty shit but i am proud of it. Every film maker needs to produce bad films at first because if you come up with the most amazing scenario when you start out its bloody hard to keep that up. Student films are all about teaching yourself, experimentation and finding your personal style. Once you have found yourself in film then thats the time to expand and if your still shit then perhaps you should try calling your local job centre because film may just not be for you.
Location: stoke, uk
Re: DUMPS
After reading much of this site, it seems people want tips for what makes for and makes up a good film, not just deconstruction. So I humbly offer some suggestions that, in my opinion, are a part of a good film. 1. Good cinematography is a must. This is much more than just putting a guy who knows how to work the camera behind it. Good DPs add so much more to the visual content of the story than most writers even imagine. Shaky or otherwise amatuer camerawork means that no one will take your film seriously. 2. If you think your film is good, show it to some people that are NOT fellow film students, or friends and family. Get others to watch it, so you can know that your film works on a level outside of insider film techniques and jokes. Do this, and see what works best with a wider audience. (NOTE This is not to suggest you should make a film strictly for commercial purposes at all). 3. Symbolism. And lots of it. But beware, symbolism when not used for the right situation is painful. But symbolism that adds to a story and gives into deeper meanings and double meanings of the situation and dialouge is priceless. It also helps add a lot more layers and double meanings to a short story and can make it way more intriguing. 4. Good, realistic action scenes. If you use action scenes, find actors who are willing to take abuse, and your scene looks way more realistic. TIP- If you know anyone in martial arts, get them to recruit for you and you'll find some amazing physical action actors who don't mind feeling pain. This entry is long, but I hope helpful. Good luck!
Location: Chicago, USA
Re: DUMPS
Sorry, one more. if you truly have something interesting to say, try a documentary. Searing, psyche-probing documentaries that have a message can be a terrific forum for expression. But don't make ones that are self-indulgent, or you just want to put a partial autobiography on screen. Make interesting ones, like about dangerous topics in our society, like professional theives (if you can find anything on this) or exposing dirt films, like a corporate scandal or unjustice. And make them about life, not just your life. Just look at Hoop Dreams, Roger & Me, and Paradise Lost
Location: Chicago, USA
Re: DUMPS
Don't try to tell a gripping love story, unless you've actually had one. Because you are probably full of shit about what affection of any kind is.thanks.
Location: San Angelo, tx USA
Re: DUMPS
If you decide to make an action film try not to use the Quentin Tarantino cliche'of overdoing the loss of blood from a gunshot wound. And also avoid telling the story by beginning the first scene with the ending.
Location: San Angelo, tx USA
Re: DUMPS
Here's a big no-no I witnessed way too often in film school: Stealing music from the soundtrack of whatever movie is popular at the time, and for that matter, trying to copy the directing style of whatever movie is popular at the time, too.
Location: Chicago, USA
Re: DUMPS
At 52 and having grown up in the industry I am Pleased to see a truthful site like this. Good film makinf to tou all, and keep it simple !
Location: Junction City, Ca USA
Re: DUMPS
Great site, I feel like I'm in class all over again. This is a great list of what not to do but here's a suggestion of what can be helpful. A professor once told me to always use the K.I.S.S. acronisym in student filmmaking. (Keep It Simple Stupid) If you can't tell a good story quickly and visually you probably shouldn't be spending the money on the film and the processing. The best and most educational films I ever experienced and watched, was when my class shot five minute silent black and white. Everyone was forced to learn how to tell a story quickly with images rather than long effects heavy dialouge sequences. I suggest anyone trying to learn filmmaking make a couple films like this first and see if you can tell a story on screen rather than just on paper. Thanks again.
Location: Washington, DC USA
Re: DUMPS
The eyes shot - Close up of the eyes, eyebrows, and maybe the top of the nose. This always looks like the actor has been holding still, staring off into space, for 40 minutes or so while the camera guy gets the focus right. This shot never cuts in well. Come to think of it, most extreme close-ups of the face pretty much suck in student films.
Location: USA
Re: DUMPS
Yeah you've sumed up my major project film idea for next year. I'm working on a new idea now. Cheers for the inspiration. You've done good.
Location: Southampton, UK
Re: DUMPS
wonderful insights. i can smell the insecurities of the guy who wrote this shit even from where i am...if you really want directors to come up with good stuff then i suggest you stop trying to sound cool and shoot from the hip than from your mouth. i believe that the stuff you listed will always work if they are utilized for the benefit of the film.
Location: USA
Re: DUMPS
I agree that these some of these examples can be used successfully if done correctly. The main thing is - if you're creatively gifted then great, go for it. But if you're just making films because you like movies and you think it would be cool to be a 'filmmaker', you should be in banking or something similar.
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
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